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Ed Atkinson's avatar

Thanks John, great work!

1. I suggest you add a sentence or 2 before you talk about Mark to explain why he is so important. I.e. the first ever voice we have on the tomb and it being found empty. Certainly M & L heavily used him as a source and J perhaps too. So Mark is the one that matters.

2. When I am confronted with this I immediately point out that Mark can't try any harder to undermine the women as witnesses, so the argument ceases there. They are said to have told no one so they didn't act as witnesses at all.

3. Can I try out my theory on you?

a) Before Mark there was no tradition of a tomb burial and hence empty tomb.

b) Mark wrote it as a literary trope - as you report scholars suggesting.

c) Mark was worried that it wouldn't land well because of (a)

d) So he included in the story elements to explain why (a). I.e The women told no one and the burial was done by a Sanhedrin member who wasn't ever in the Christian group.

I am doing a small debate in my local Sceptics in the Pub with Max Baker-Hytch. It's on the resurrection and all this will come up. I guess you know Max. He seems are really good guy.

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Maytree's avatar

Also, you say that embarrassment criteria is an important historical tool. I guess I've gotten the impression that it's actually a rarely used one outside of the Bible scholarship/debates. And using the principal properly seems fraught given it's may not be clear what is and isn't embarrassing to an author in history. Not to mention that I understand that the use of literary devices to surprise the reader's normal expectations are found in ancient writings (and seemingly so throughout the NT). How can a historian really be certain of the difference in any given case? It reminds me of -- being a litigator for decades -- of the "statement against interest" exception to the hearsay rule for the admissibility of statements. It can be invoked, but the bar is a high one, requiring a tangible interest, like property or money, and not something merely reputational or embarrassing, otherwise it becomes a flimsy exception for the same reasons as I would think the "historical tool" would be quite flimsy in practice. I'm not a historian, so I pose this really as a question more than as an argument.

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